A reader asks for advice about a male office supervisor who makes her uncomfortable with his excessive praises over her physical appearance. She says that when he says things like “That blouse shows off your curves and cleavage magnificently” especially in the presence of co-workers, she feels that he is undressing her mentally. Worse, she feels that statements like that suggest to her co-workers that she and the supervisor are intimate and, ergo, the relationship entitles him to make very personal comments. I don’t normally dispense legal advice in my column but I’ll make an exception in this case as it presents an opportunity to discuss a very imperfect law.
It’s easy enough appraising my reader with what her rights are under the law. But how to deal with the harasser on a day-to-day basis is a totally different matter. If I were in her position, I’d counter with responses like “Thanks, I wish I can return the compliment but the bulge inside your pants is really tiny” or “Oh, I had no idea you are, ummm… that way, but I can tell you where I bought my blouse if you’d like to buy one that you can wear yourself” or “Embarrass me again and I’ll send you to prison.” You get the drift.
But not everyone can thumb their noses at assholes at work or even in school. Each person will react differently, some will consider statements with sexual undertones to be harmless attempts at flirtation while others will consider them offensive and bordering on sexual harassment. Even among those who feel that they are being sexually harassed, not all will take action. Reasons vary. Some, reminiscent of many rape victims, consider it even more humiliating to complain publicly. Others, especially at work, cannot deal with being labeled a trouble maker and the added hostility of co-workers. But for people – workers and students alike – who want to know what their rights are, here is the lowdown.
What is sexual harassment? Who can commit it? Where does it happen? Is it unlawful? If, like the reader asking for advice, a superior at work makes public comments about your curves and cleavage, is there sexual harassment? If a male teacher sits thigh-to-thigh next to a male student and stares directly and fixedly at the student’s crotch and the student flees in fear and disgust, is there sexual harassment? If, during an official school trip, a male teacher orders two male students to stand by the open bathroom door while the teacher showers in full view of the students, and the students run off, return to their dorm rooms so that they are safely surrounded by other students, is there sexual harassment?
Under RA 7877, or the Anti-Sexual Harassment Act of 1995, which punishes sexual harassment with a penalty of one to six months in prison, a fine of ten to twenty thousand poses, or both imprisonment and fine, sexual harassment is defined under section 3 as committed by a person having authority, influence or moral ascendancy over another in a work or training or education environment who “demands, requests or otherwise requires any sexual favor from the other, regardless of whether the demand, request or requirement for submission is accepted.”
Activists praise RA 7877 as a legal landmark but it isn’t. It’s a very incomplete law as it actually absolves majority of sexual harassers. Under the law, a woman can be the butt of crass sexist jokes and there won’t be any sexual harassment unless she can prove that all or any of it directly affects your continued employment or chances of getting promoted or some other analogous situation. In the same manner, a teacher can leer at a student to his libido’s content and unless the student can show that the leering constitutes an actual request or demand for a sexual favor, then, the student cannot complain about sexual harassment.
Imagine the hostile environment, the mental torture and the emotional trauma. Imagine what it must be like to go to work or school everyday and have to deal with all the crap and not be able to make a case for sexual harassment. A real anti-sexual harassment law will recognize that the essence of sexual harassment is not the demand or request for sexual favors but the intimidation that a person is subjected to because he or she belongs to a particular gender, whether a man, a woman, a homosexual, a bisexual or whatever other categories there are.
Isn’t there any other way to deal with lowlifes who just happen to be persons of authority? Yes, there is. Article 21 of the Civil Code states that any person who wilfully causes loss or injury to another in a manner that is contrary to morals, good customs or public policy shall compensate the latter for the damage. The word injury covers a lot of ground. It includes mental and emotional trauma. If the company or school head was aware of the situation and did nothing, he or she can be liable for damages as well – the principle called the “diligence of a good father of a family.”
For minor students, it should be remembered that when a parent enrolls his minor child in school, there is a contract entered into whereby the school accepts responsibility for the safety and welfare of the child within its premises. If the highest school authorities had been less than diligent in its selection of its faculty and non-academic staff, as when they keep hiring family members, friends and relatives who are not genuinely qualified for the job, and one or some of whom cause injury to a student somewhere along the way, then the school authorities can be held liable for damages as well.
“Damages” mean monetary payment that approximates the extent of the injury suffered. Damages include actual damages, moral damages and exemplary damages.
Hello miss Sass,
Michael Chricton’s book “Disclosure” which became a hit movie starred by Michael Douglas and Demi Moore touched that subject Ra 7877 as is. The woman lawyer said: sexual harrassment is about power!
who was that woman?, secretary? of thomas clarence appointee for u.s. supreme court, accussed him of sexual harrassment, what year was that? wow! parang jeopardy naman ang tanong ko ah. dalawang tanong kaagad. hirap ng mahina sa english, trying hard pa. anyway, during that time, when we, my hobby and I were watching that news, i told my husband: “when a woman likes the men who comments with sexual inclination about her “pag aayos” pagdadamit” the woman appreciates that comment, however, if the woman does NOT like the guy, that to me constitutes sexual harrasment. para ko na ring sinabi na ndi ako nagdamit ng ganito para sa iyo, gago! and i do not need a word from you”, pati nga yong pito-pito, whistle, ng mga lalaking tambay sa kanto, nakakaasar din eh! ano pa kaya yong boss mo or kakilala mo na hindi mo naman gusto in that way?
Titigan na lang niya ng nakakapasong titig ang boss nya, conveying contempt for that moronic supervisor of hers, kung ayaw niya magsampa ng reklamo or ayaw niyang umalis sa work niya.
Yes, it is about power. In that sense, RA 7877 works well because it is clear about the power/authority relationship. And it is also true that not every sexually charged statement ought to be considered sexual harassment. Still, there ought to be some recourse for victims of kabastusan, right?
A good and time-tested recourse is a quick kick to the crotch.
Still, there’s a need to review to RA 7877. Wonder if any of those candidates running for the coming elections are aware of this, or it’s just part of their gimmick.
Dry wit and biting humor is always good.
Tit for tat, imho.
Being an exceptionally chatty guy with a good command of the English language, I have had the misfortune of being assumed to be gay by at least one overly masculine coworker.
So when he asked if I was gay when I tried to correct his vocabulary, I asked this with a malicious smile:
“Would it really, really ruin your day if I said Yes?”
He backed off after that.
BWAHAHAHA And what — he always kept a 20-feet distance after that?
Honestly, I don’t know. It’s not my damn problem if I he thinks his gaydar is malfunctioning.
On an OT note, I don’t have anything against gays – I actually find homophobes far more annoying.
“I actually find homophobes far more annoying”
I second the motion.
As far as I understand it, if a woman feels uncomfortable with the men’s comments, she can file a complaint of sexual harassment against the guy who made the hostile remark. Tama po ba?
At work, if there are company rules that state which is permissible and which is not, that is possible. Sans rules, it would be a gray area. But in terms of criminal prosecution, well, if the situation doesn’t all under the provisions of the law, no case. And sexual harassment laws vary from one country to another.
Share ko lang sa inyo”
I had a boss once who had an nearly had affair with one of my friends because she was a former employee (she’s married by the way). The thing is pinopormahan niya outside the office (it was the reason why I resigned in that stupid office last year)DURING THE TIME na madami kami problema sa work and he is badly needed. Dahilan niya lagi, lagi may meeting outside with the bosses kaya bugbog na daw siya on all corners. Yun pala nambababae na. Good thing yung friend namin had the guts to tell him na wala siyang ambisyion maging “other woman”.
The thing is kami pinag-initan. Binawi yung mga pinangakong promotion sa amin. Dapat supervisor na ako last year. But anyway…
Unfortunately, yung pinsan nung friend namin naman ang nag-apply sa amin who is also gifted physically. Yun naman ang sinesimplehan… I don’t know kung hanggang ngayon ganun pa din. Pareho kasing malaki ang balakang…
I visited them this year because I have an insurance policy with them. Nung kinamusta ako I said, I’m just fine. When he asked kung ano ang plans ko, I’m planning out my business well so that I don’t ever become an employee again (I’m only 32 anyway) because I don’t want to deal with office politics ever again. One kabastusan led to another and I completely forgotten the reason why I suddenly said to him said “Sir, ang panuntunan ko ng pagka-lalake e kung gaano kadaming babaero at mga abusado ang mapapabagsak ko pagdating sa suntukan. Mula pa nung high-school ako nagbibilang and I haven’t stopped counting”. He then told me (tinawag niya pa yung HR niya na babaero din) “Parang may pinariringgan ka boy a?”
To which I replied: “Wala naman, sir. Bakit gusto niyo ba ako subukan? Besides, why are you talking to me like that? I’m no longer your employee. You’re no longer my boss. I’m your policyholder. Your client. I am not your friend. Isang tawag ko sa Insurance Commission sa mga kalokohan niyo, bugbog ka talaga on all corners. And you’ll have to deal with me, physically.”
That shut him and his useless HR manager up. They all knew, himself included, I could beat the living hell out of him right then and there since I’m proficient in fighting because I’m active in Kyokushin (Japanese Full Contact Karate, almost like muay thai). I’s just that mahaaaaaaaaaaaaaba lang talaga ang pasensya ko. But he got me there (and that’s bad).
I know mababaw and it was out of place, but yung ibang babae dun nakangiti when I said that. I know what their smiles meant. That was probably the only good thing that happened there…
Hahaha, natawa ako sa suggested comeback remark mo Connie, especially the first one. Nakakikilabot with what the boss said to the reader, sometimes you don’t know how people can think and behave that way. What really should be common sense is not too common to other people. The fact that he mentions cleavage and curves, it’s hard to believe that there aren’t any sexual innuendos there – unless he is gay.
“unless he is gay”
Eh di very apt that he be told where she bought the blouse hahaha
Tita Connie, as a guy, I was hoping to know just what sort of comments on a woman’s wardrobe I should ask or how should I ask them so as to avoid getting caught up in a sexual harrassment suit?
For example, will I get into trouble if I point out their skirt is too short?
Not under Philippine laws. But if it happens in some other jurisdiction, it might give rise to a sexual harassment suit depending on the circumstances in which the comment was made and how the woman feels about it.
In the my first job, Makati-based, I got (naively) entangled in a harrassment case. There was this OZ-Pinoy who once slapped my bum as a “joke” and he did it in front of several officemates. Very casual kami duon & I sometimes come in to work wearing shorts and trainers whenever I don’t plan to stay long (in-between biz trips). I called him back and told him right there and then “Do that again & I will snap your fingers in half!” I smiled, he said sorry & I turned away.
Ok na, e yun pala habit nya talaga yun with others, pati sa mga lalake. When our office manager (most small companies don’t have HRs) approached me to file a complaint “too” I readily said fine.
But you know what?? There were people in the Sales/Mktg Dept, where that guy worked, who turned against me!!! Parang sa anak mo, nagpaparining sila sa akin or to my friends. It was traumatic to hear one woman actually say “…not true, especially not with that girl!”
Ay naku panting-tenga talaga ko, but I was too shocked to confront them & spoke to the office manager instead. In the end the guy left, he got fired not because of his leery-ways but because he squandered a big chunk of our budget… he got away with it for a while coz he was a super-brown-noser!
Between you and him, him being a superior, the others chose which side of the field is greener. *Sigh* That’s why I always say, the causes really worth fighting for, expect to fight alone.
Philippine RA 7877 has shortchanged victims of sexual harrassment because it is anchored on actual demand or request of sexual favors which is a higher standard protecting the defendant.
Contrast this with US SC landmark decision on Ellison vs Brady, which rejected the reasonable person standard in favor with “reasonable woman standard”. It has allowed sexual harrassment cases at the eyes of the complainant rather than the defendant. In addition, employers are liable and sexual harrassment is actionable even without motivation of “sexual desire” when discrimination based on sex places the victim in an “objectively disadvantage working condition” in Oncales vs Sundowner Offshore Services.
In the Philippines, it is based on the act for sexual favors which is a narrow version as opposed to working condition (job, schools, etc) in the US.
RA 7877 is a sick joke especially as it was intended for the students who are very vulnerable.
When I was freshman (16) in a Catholic university, I never did know I will have to deal with it. My Spanish teacher repeatedly announced in a loud voice that all the male students will be failed if they have low grades (I thought I was safe coz I was an academic scholar). He did it in all his other subjects (PE and Drama). He was also my PE teacher and asked me to join his dramatics guild which I refused.
He is very vulgar with sexual expletives directed to male students in his classes which he took as very funny. One day he asked to me stay behind, and was told I was his #1 student and asked my help to grade the test papers in his apartment which was close to the school. As an adult he has a way of talking and embracing my shoulder briefly but repeatedly. And I felt very awkward. His demeanor changed when we got inside his apartment. He gave me beer which I did not drink. The moment he showed his porn mags, shocked I stood up and left. He ran after me, apologized and pleaded to explain. Since people were looking at us and to avoid any scene, I went along with him to a restaurant and I did not want to eat and then department store. He wanted to buy me designers stuff which I refused. He insisted to make it up to me for what he did. The stupid me I could not get rid of him so I took his offer to watch the movie. It was a mistake. When seated shortly, he suddenly dropped his right hand to my crotch and I left for good.
I still attended his classes though avoiding him largely. I could not even change into my PE uniform because he stood at the door. Finally he gave up. He was concerned that other teachers might notice my hostile reaction (uncharacteristic of an A student) to him so he made a deal to give me the A grade without attending his 2 classes the rest of the semester.
At that time, I did not know that reporting him will do any good since other students came forward but no results. But it was terrible to see the faces of other students who fell to his sexual advances.
The problem with RA 7877 is that a person will not even demand or request sexual favors. The person just play on students vulnerabilities until there will be no barrier to his advances.
I wonder if you’ve read about the case of Naomi Wolf and her Yale professor. It’s been criticized largely because she kept silent for 20 years but it’s worth reading if only for perspective.
Naomi’s account is visceral and strike deeply those with similar experience. I understood well the silence. Stonewalling by institution for damage control and self-preservation left the students to fend for themselves. Naomi Wolf accurately pointed out that this systematic cover-up corrupted the institution social mission. Larger and central to this issue is the Catholic Church itself and the pope’s handling of its self-inflicted crises.
Sass, thank you once again for giving us the time and space. Your insights are valuable to us the readers.
Your insights are “tremendously” valuable to us the readers.
I think I posted a reply on this comment. Mukhang nawala.
I checked the spam filter. Nothing there.
Thanks for sharing your story, d0d0ng. You did well. ‘Hope others do too.
What I’ve seen from organizations that have some measure of success in this matter is that they’ve integrated sexual harassment awareness into their mission, policy, training, and consciousness. From day one at indoc, posters in the work spaces, and mandatory periodic refreshers, it’s an all out battle supported at all levels. And when something does happen, the perpetrator is transferred, or if there’s enough evidence of guilt, is suspended until a final action is reached. The message is clear: You cross the line, you will pay dearly.
To “Uncomfortable,” good luck and be safe.
Thanks again, Connie.
You are welcome, Jeng. Both schools and workplaces are getting better than before with awareness and “no-contact” guidelines.
My highschool bestfriend who took architecture at another Catholic university was sexually harrassed by her professor when the teacher asked her as practicum requirement to design a house of a bank president in an exclusive residence. My goodness, she was not raped. But these mentally sick individuals knew when to prey on students. Late one day when the workers were gone, the male teacher fondled himself in front of her and my friend fled the scene in fear. There is not even solicitation of sex under RA 7877.
If colleges and universities are staffed by sexual wackos, it is even more at the working offices with sexually depraved bosses. I knew sexual harrassment stories from my girlfriend and from my girl cousins. I was dead wrong to think then that my unfortunate experience in college was the last one.
See? That’s exactly why RA 7877 is such a weak law. And it won’t fall under Art. 336 of the revised penal code (acts of lasciviousness) either.
The language in RA 7877 and Art 336 is lacking. It is lopsided against the victim who is above 18; it boils down to your words against mine without any witnesses since most sexual harassments are done in private.
When I joined a company where I found significant number of board topnotchers in every batch, who would think I have to relive the past. Déjà vu, right? Maybe except that I met there my future wife who was my senior (who had her sexual harassments from clients). I love her when I first met her. Three years is the average and those who stayed are destined for top positions. Here is another person our supervisor 6 six years my senior is groomed to become manager. He changed girlfriends as he moved from one client to another. He dated my future wife for brief period until they split and that was before I met both of them.
It was my second year at the firm and to get one of the accounts you have to be in the good graces of the supervisor. My supervisor kept on telling me that if I followed his lead??, he will give me one of his large account. Damn, I was only 20. We worked past midnight on tight deadlines and slept on any couch or space available. One day, he told me he forgot his key to the office so he said we can sleep in his apartment which was nearby. There was a large bed so I doze the moment I hit it unlike the uncomfortable benches at work. Only to be awakened by my supervisor who was stripped bare fresh from shower. Shocked, I left without any explanation. The next day, he apologized that was how he slept at his place, fine that was his private place after but spare me.
The problem started when we went out of town client and he did not told me in advance that I was not getting my own room. In short, he booked one room for us. This is the dicey part because if I was a woman it was mandatory for separate accommodation but guys are allowed to bunch together. There were 2 beds. I don’t know how many times I woke up and transferred to the other bed because he kept on joining me at least with decency with a pair of shorts. I should have kicked him. It was so disgusting and humiliating to be treated like sex object by my own mentor. He told me I cannot do anything since it is my word against his. I also lost servicing his accounts and reassigned with a senior who became my future wife.
Three months later he found out I dated my senior, his ex-girlfriend. He was so pissed off and he wanted to talk to me. He was spurned twice (his ex cut him off when he was demanding sex as proof to their relationship). He wanted me back for his accounts and threatened to tell her about us. I said, “What us? Your sick fantasy exists only in your own imagination. Go and tell the world who really you are”. He stopped. My girlfriend and I resigned from the company.
To this day, I cannot tell my wife or any in my family. There was no physical harm but I have to deal emotionally with the experience.
Question, how about the right of men or the male gender? It’s very noticeable that women at this present time, specially those with the correct curves, are really wearing the apparel that will show their curves (asset) at its best.
To the point, in our vernacular, males are calling them, pormang bastusin – kayang-kaya ‘yan. (Tutoo kaya yung sabi-sabi na yung hindi napapansin ay yung numero unong reklamador?)
I’ll agree with other men that seeing sexy woman specially in person is really a mental torture at its extremity.
Ano naman kaya ang pwedeng issue?
Sexual harassment applies to all genders. It’s just that in Philippine culture, rarely will you find a female sexually harassing a male.
In the USA,because of its’ cultural diversity, harassment does not only
involve cases with sexual overtones but against race,color,age,sexual
orientation,etc. My workplace has zero tolerance to any forms of harassment be it sexual or non-sexual in nature.And companies have a booklet that an employee reads and sign that he/she understand fully
what harassment is and the consequences if one is found guilty.
Lawyers advertise on TV and newspapers for those who think that they
are victims of harassment.It’s big business.
Trosp,if you work in a US company you will definitely protected but
some companies have a dress code so you won’t be seeing those curves
or you better pretend not to see.
Some Pinoy males are fond of making jokes directed to sexy ladies.
Many years ago there was a Fil. nurses’ aide(newly arrived immigrant)
who upon entering a patient room saw this beautiful lady,well-endowed lying in bed and he remarked-”Oh what a beautiful view.”—meaning her
breast.
The patient complained about this worker and he was suspended.At that time
harassment was still not big, but the patient sued and the
hospital settled.Just a simple remark,not even a touch made this
patient uncomfortable and made someone pay.
emyM, I can look at that situation in US like this. For them, women who are wearing sexy clothes (plunging neck line, body clinging clothes, mini skirt)is normal on their day to day life. They are like that time immemorial. That’s why they consider ogling woman wearing sexy clothes as an abnormality. Ika nga, parang ngayon ka lang nakakita ng ganyan.
In my case,I consider it one of my imperfections if I wouldn’t even take a glance on those sexy woman. I’ve grown in a culture where wearing sexy clothes for some if not most of the women is something that I call mood dependent.
On one hand, I consider maliciously ogling a beautiful demure woman an abnormality. These women have the right to file a complaint if they feel being harassed sexually. They can always justify it.
For women who have the habit of wearing provocative clothes, how it will look if they file a sexual harassment? Nah, IMO, most likely they will not file any sexual harassment if the offense is verbal (except perhaps if the comment is slanderous) or malicious ogling. You don’t tell me that the objective in wearing provocative clothes is primarily for one’s comfort. I would go with their maxim: “if you’ve got it, flaunt it”.
Pahabol lang.
There is a culture where wearing sexy clothes for women is a taboo. They are not even allowed to wear pants. You’ll always see women wearing clothes that almost cover their whole body. Only the head, hands and feet are exposed.
But some of these women find a way to flaunt what they’ve got. You will see them wearing their clothes clinging to their body leaving nothing to your imagination on what is behind their clothes.
I never did understand why wearing pants was considered “provocative” for women. Pants are flexible, comfy, and are far more versatile in their functions
Quite frankly, I think skirts are more susceptible to harrassment given they’re much easier to peek under or flip up.
Of course I’m speaking strictly from a pragmatic perspective.
emyM,
US has zero tolerance policy. In my previous job, my initial action against a male employee who was accessing porn websites at the office during breaktime, was suspension. There were complaints filed by 2 female co-workers. HR recommended termination based on his file that he signed the company sexual harrassment policy when he accepted his job. So I asked the help of IT to check his company laptop and found he did. So he was terminated on the spot and a security officer led him out.
d0d0ng, I’m just curious, how accessing porn websites become a sexual harassment issue in the US of America? My understanding is this thing we call pornographic videos are covered by their first amendment. Likewise watching them is also covered by the same right.
I can only surmise that when that employee was accessing those porn sites, he was at the same time showing it to those 2 female co-workers. That will be a totally different matter.
And if this is the case, if your HR would not take the word of those 2 female employees against that “errant” employee,then there is no point anymore in checking his laptop for his deed.
I’m just curious…
1. He violated a signed agreement not to use company resources to acces pornsite.
2. He violated a signed agreement not to display offensive materials that can be seen by co-workers as intimidating work environment.
All the while I thought we were discussing sexual harassment and not the misuse of company property. If I’m that guy, never in their life they can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that I’ve misused the company property except that it’s there in the laptop. Unless they require me submit to them my company issued laptop when not in use.
That is correct, the issue is still sexual harassment. US laws allowed a complainant to sue the employer. We had bigger risks if the 2 female employees filed a lawsuit under sexual harassment clause particularly intimidating working environment. The signed agreement was crafted as company protection.
“Beyond reasonable doubt” is not a standard used in civil cases. Pornsites and dates of access by the employee with specific company username matched the timeframe disclosed by the 2 complainants who saw the employee. Our IT guy printed the report and we filed it along with the written complaints under the employee termination file should he file a case later. The termination has the blessing of our legal department.
Misuse of company resources is serious enough if the language included “a ground for termination without prior warning”.
Better check the fine print of those signing papers when you took a job.
In my current job, a VP saw a provocative wallpaper of Sharon Stone used by the Accounts Payable Manager (a Filipino) on his computer. He told me get rid of him under sexual harrassment. Even if the guy is valuable and I try to defend him that the basis is a gray area, I was told to terminate him under retrenchment program.
That is how serious the company in avoiding sexual harrassment lawsuits.
And so with this one d0dong, from my understanding, there should be a cease and desist order based on a complaint before something from what you have commented could be implemented.
Maybe that was the reason why the guy was terminated by you’re employer invoking the retrenchment program. If not, I think your employer will be sued by the “errant” employee for a much more big damage than this sexual harassment lawsuit.
It is management function to minimize risks so we look for cost effective solution.
Cost effective of losing a good man just because a VP did not like his wallpaper? (BTW, I might not like S Stone political stupidness, but I’ve not seen yet any of her still photos that is morally offending).
Maybe one of the reasons a lot of corporations in US are failing…
There are people who would not listen to good advice. That’s probably he was thinking he was older than me. Besides, there were already a handful of complaints from his associates. It is also a big mistake if one thinks he is indispensable because his work.
No one is indispensable and anybody can be replaced. Anyway I gave him a good reference and he got another job.
d0dong, thanks for the clarification and for the time.
Here in Australia , its considered sexual harassment if the person its aimed at considers the behavior offensive , that includes , comments , contact and yes even something posted as pc wallpaper etc .
Whats also needed apart from laws and company rules is a change in attitude . Sorry guys but you aren’t the only people working in an office place etc . Others have rights . The right NOT to be subjected to behavior that they find offensive .
As a manager in a large company , I have been approached by female employees compalining about inappropriate behavior of male employees . The female employee has my FULL support and backing in taking any action she see’s fit to ensure the behavior stops . She still has the right to proceed with a legal case if she wanted too of course . What you also find is that any employee who does take action also has the full support of other employess ….and thats because change of attitude I’m talking about . Remember , one day it could be you , or your daughter , wife, sister , mother or even your sons , husband brother or husband who is subjected to a form of offensive comments or behavior .
And Trosp , to me you sound like a man that needs to dragged into the 21st century , no doubt kicking and screaming the whole way . lol. Just my opinion .
“And Trosp , to me you sound like a man that needs to dragged into the 21st century , no doubt kicking and screaming the whole way . lol. Just my opinion .”
I’m just curious with what really your opinion is with what my opinion was.
By reading your comment, it seems to me that you are more interested in telling the reader of this blog that you’re a manager of a large company. Telling us that sexually harassed female employees have your full support. Then closing it that they have the right to proceed to take legal actions.
How about firing that erring employee? You being a manager. That, I’ll cal full support. Otherwise, you’re just full of air. Puro dada at yabang lang in our lingo.
Okay Trosp its the individual employees decision as to how far they wish to take the matter . Under the law here , the employee follows the procedures in place within the company . Some people are happy with just being heard , others with the perpetrator being counseled . Regardless of what action is taken by the company , the employee that was subjected to the harassment still retains their right to take further legal action should they still see fit to . As to firing the perpetrator , that’s not my role , its performed by the HR department .
So, Mark, you’re a manager as you’re claiming, but without a recommending capacity. Or if I can put it mildly, even the capacity to confront those erring employees (perpetrators) ?
Firing a perpetrator maybe is beyond your payscale as I can only surmise. But the question that lingers in my mind – you don’t know anybody from the HR who can help an aggrieved individual? Are the stories you were telling us are for real or they were just hypes?
Trosp….1. That’s why we have an HR department . 2. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty . 3. Follow all the rules and procedures put inplace by the company and under law and unfair dismissal cases can be avoided .
The people working within the HR department are fully conversant with the company’s obligations under law vis a vis duty of care requirements towards all employees . 4. Follow the chain of command . 5. I have assisted 3 female employees in making complaints regarding the behavior of their male colleagues .
@Mark
My reply is the same -
“So, Mark, you’re a manager as you’re claiming, but without a recommending capacity. Or if I can put it mildly, even the capacity to confront those erring employees (perpetrators) ?
Firing a perpetrator maybe is beyond your payscale as I can only surmise. But the question that lingers in my mind – you don’t know anybody from the HR who can help an aggrieved individual? Are the stories you were telling us are for real or they were just hypes?”
Ok, I get the part that the laws concerning sexual harassment are inadequate. But, instead of just talking about it, shouldn’t we be doing something about it?
In any case, I’m interested in the part where we can assault harassers. What has been holding me back is the fear of getting arrested or sued later (as well as other forms of retaliation). I guess, my question is, how do other people do it? I mean, how can they just kick someone’s ass and not end up in jail after?
Where self-defense applies…
Self-defense is not limited to defense of life. It can be defense against honor.
Thank you, atty. But, at what point is the person being sexually harassed, entitled to employ measures of “self-defense”? “Authorities” have told me that it’d be best to respond with violence only when unwanted physical contact has occurred. That doesn’t address the more psychological and “social” forms of sexual harassment, but ok. I can play the game…
So, the slightest, avoidable physical contact entitles me to beat someone up?
Sorry for trying to be a little too academic in tone, but actually having been in a legal dispute from assaulting (non-sexually, of course) someone in premeditated retaliation for non-physical sexual harassment has given me an eye-opener on how the law works in practice.
How about this? Hypothetically, would you be willing to represent someone who been “pushed too far,” and simply has just had enough?
Self-defense is not limited to physical assault.